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-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 11:03 PM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: "Flavor Bead"?
Hi,
This isn't really a recipe request, but it is about food... My persistent
searching for clues led me to your site.
I just replaced the antifreeze in my home heating system, and part of the
drill is adding a tiny bottle of tolytriazole to prevent corrosion of copper
and brass surfaces. It has a strong and distinctive fragrance, that haunted
me for days when I couldn't place it. Today I got it.
In the 1950's, Jell-O Butterscotch Pudding, the kind you had to cook, came
with what I'm pretty sure was called a "Flavor Bead" in the envelope with
the powder. I remember them bragging about it on the outside of the package.
It was like a small pearl, off-white and about 1/4" diameter. I remember
thinking even as a pre-schooler that its aroma was not exactly that of milk
or butter or brown sugar, it wasn't really like food at all. But since it
accompanied butterscotch pudding, I accepted it as a good thing.
Searching the web now, I find several azoles sold as artificial flavorings
in the butterscotch to honey range. Not the simple tolytriazole I put in my
heat transfer fluid, probably more sophisticated and realistic. But I wonder
if maybe the "Flavor Bead" was an early mechanism for incorporating
artificial flavorings into consumer products. And whether way back then it
might have contained the same chemical I recognize so strongly.
Any ideas how to find out?
Loren
Hi Loren,
I had no success finding anything about the Jell-o flavor bead, either
construction or contents. Writing to Kraft would be the only way I know of
to find that out, and they probably wouldn't tell you.
As for tolytriazole itself, it's a hazardous chemical, and would not be used
in a food product. Pure tolyltriazole is white, with no odor. See:
MSDS
Regarding water treatment, such as in your heating system, I found this:
(paraphrased):
The breakdown reaction when using oxydizing biocides such as chlorine with
tolytriazole also creates a new odor problem by generating a volatile
decomposition product with a characteristic sweet caramel or butterscotch
smell that can be objectionable.
Combining tolytriazole and chlorine produces a strong odor:
Patentstorm
Antifreeze, even the kind used in cars, often has a sweet odor.
Most azoles that are consumed are done so as medicines, not in food. They
are effective antifungals - miconazole is an athlete's foot treatment.
I attempted to duplicate your web search for azoles sold as artificial
flavorings, but I could not find even one citation of this. Perhaps the
results would have been different if I had the name of the exact azole used,
but using "azole" or "azoles" and "flavoring" or "butterscotch", I had no
success.
"Flavor beads" are chemical flavorings, natural or artificial, encapsulated
in a covering (gelatin is used frequently) so that the flavoring is only
released under certain conditions and are commonly used in situations like
this:
1) Where the beads contain extra flavor that one wishes to be released
slowly. Some dissolve in the mouth immediately, some later, and some even
later. These are used in products like chewing gum so that the flavor lasts
a long time.
2) Where the bead(s) contain a perishable flavoring, to prevent it from
being exposed to air or released until the proper time (during cooking?) in
order to extend shelf life. Jell-o Pudding may have included a flavor bead
of this type.
Flavor Beads
It's not extremely uncommon for two totally unrelated chemicals to have a
similar odor. I don't think the two things are related at all. I would
speculate that the Jell-o bead contained a non-azole butterscotch flavoring
and that, since tolytriazole has no odor by itself, the butterscotch aroma
from your addition of the tolytriazole to your heating system came from the
breakdown reaction between the tolytriazole and the chlorine in the water.
Phaed
------------------------------------------------
Loren sent me this link:
The most references I found are here:
SAFCGlobal
Looks like almost all are "thiazole" variants. Shocking how many chemicals are available for use in food...
There are thiazole compounds used in the flavorings listed there. (Not "tolytriazole" or "-triazole".)
The butterscotch and caramel flavorings listed are not azole compounds.
I would add that two compounds simply having an ending of "-azole" does not mean that the physical properties of those two compounds are similar.
It means that the molecular structure of both contains a nitrogen heterocyclic ring, but that's not necessarily predictive
of their physical characteristics.
A "triazole" contains 3 nitrogen atoms, and a "thiazole" contains one sulfur atom and one nitrogen atom.
From: Gregory
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 11:39 AM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: sause used on Carrol's Clubburgers
their triple-decker used shredded lettuce and somewhere between
mayo+ketchup and thousand islands is the best description.
they closed the chain in the mid '70s. I hear that the only
carol's fast food restaurants left are in Finland and that's too
far to drive!
Thanks,
Gregory
Hi Gregory,
I was not familiar with Carrol’s, probably because they were located in the Northern U.S., particularly in New York State.
As you say, there are no Carrol’s Restaurants in the U.S. nowadays.
The Carrol corporation closed some of them and converted the rest to Burger King Restaurant franchises in the mid-1970s.
The Carrol Corp. currently maintains 315 Burger Kings in the U.S. See:
Carrol's.com
Also as you say, there are Carrol’s Restaurants in Finland. See:
Carrol's - Finland
There are lots of message board discussions of Carrol’s. The largest number on “Roadfood”. Lots of Carrol’s lore and memories there. See:
Roadfood
From the messages there":
“I knew someone who worked for Carroll's and he said the name of the special sauce was Crisbo Royal Sauce.”
“I worked at the Carrols in Peekskill back in the late 60's as a teen. I recall running out of their "Royal sauce" which we made ourself to replenish the supply, it was nothing but Mayo, ketchup and relish all mixed together. “
From another message board: “the assembly for Club Burgers goes like this: (1)bottom bun level, (2)onions and pickles, (3)bottom hamburger patty,
(4)a small dob of C.R. Sauce, (5)central bun buffer level, (6)a small pad of lettuce, (7)a slice of American cheese, (8)top hamburger patty,
(9)a slightly more generous dob of C.R. Sauce, and finally (10)the sesame-seeded bun top level.
From yet another message board, here’s a Crisbo Royal Sauce recipe:
“45% mayonnaise, 45% ketchup, and 10% relish.”
Syracuse.com
Phaed
From: Jackie
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 4:28 PM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: Beef soup
Hi Phaedrus,
Years ago my mother had a recipe that she cut out of her local newspaper
for beef barley soup that Muriel Humphrey had published when her husband
was Vice President. Have you ever seen this recipe?
Thanks so much for your help.
Jackie
Hi Jackie,
Muriel’s famous soup recipe is on these two sites, but it has no barley – it’s more like a vegetable beef soup:
Cooks.com
Food.com
Phaed
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Timm sent this recipe. I guess Muriel had two beef soup recipes...
Phaed
From a decade old newpaper article.
Timm in Oregon
Muriel Humphrey's Beef and Barley Soup
Ingredients:
1-1/2 pounds beef stew meat
1 soup bone
1-1/2 to 2 teaspoons salt
2 bay leaves
4 medium carrots, pared and sliced
1/3 to 1/2 cup barley
1 cup celery, chopped
1/2 cup onion, chopped
15 ounce can Italian style tomatoes
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1 beef bouillon cube
1 pinch parsley
Instructions:
Place the meat and soup bone in heavy 3 quart kettle; cover with cold water,
about 4 cups. Add salt, pepper and bay leaves. Bring rapidly to boiling.
Reduce the heat. Add the carrots, barley, celery and onion; cover and simmer
until meat is tender, about 2-1/2 hours. Remove and discard bone and bay leaves.
Cut the meat into bite size pieces and return to soup. Mix in the tomatoes,
Worcestershire sauce, bouillon cube and oregano; cover and simmer about 30 minutes.
Personal Note: The soup bone has to have the marrow exposed.
Sent in by a reader:
Pasta House's Pasta Con Broccoli Recipe
Ingredients:
14 ounces noodles
8 ounces half and half
1 ounce butter
1/2 teaspoon garlic
1 ounce tomato sauce
1 ounce broccoli
1 ounce fresh mushrooms
1/4 cup Parmesan cheese
Preparation:
Cook the noodles until half done (not quite al dente). Drain the water.
Add the half and half, butter, garlic, tomato sauce, and broccoli; bring to a
hard boil. When noodles are fully cooked, add the mushrooms.
Remove from heat; add the parmesan cheese. Serve hot.
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