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-----Original Message-----
From: Peter
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:22 PM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: Tex Barry's Chili Sauce
Phaed,
I have searched the web for Tex Barry's Chili Sauce recipe. Tex's was a
hot dog shop franchise that was located mostly south of Boston. Only two are
left, one in Taunton, MA one in Attleboro, MA. Neither will share the
recipe, so as a last ditch effort, I was hoping maybe someone who reads your
blogs worked at one of the closed locations, and can share the recipe.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
Peter
Hi Peter,
I had no success looking for the recipe, a copycat, or even a "tastes-like".
I'll post this on the site.
Phaed
Tex Barry's Coney Island chili
1 lb ground beef
1/4 cup water
1 tbsp garlic powder
1 tbsp onion powder
10 oz tomato sauce strained
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 cup ketchup
3 tbsp chili powder
2 tbsp cumin
Pinch of clove
Pinch if nutmeg
Tbsp mustard
I will leave out the preparation to help protect the secrecy.....as texture is key to this sauce
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:04 PM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: The Oily Bird Gets ... What?
Uncle P--
Another historical query, possibly food. As is so often the case, idly
cruising websites, I came upon a time-waster:
Old Bailey Online
And since it's searchable with many criteria, I put in family names, first
and last; friends' names, first and last, to see what came up from almost
three hundred years of proceedings at Old Bailey. I find that no one of my
full name was ever a witness, jury member or defendant (unlike people with
names of my brother or father). But searching surnames only, I found this
case from 1830 (I'm actually a "Reynold"):
593. WILLIAM HERBERT REYNOLD BERRY was indicted for stealing, on the 10th of
February, 12lbs. weight of soap, value 8s. , the goods of Samuel Jackson .
JOSEPH CHICK. I am shopman to Mr. Samuel Jackson , who keeps an oil-shop in
Edgware-road . The prisoner came there on the 10th of February, and said he
wanted some soap and oil for Mr. Wilberforce; I gave him the soap, but said
I could not get the oil, as it was so cold - I said I would send it; he said
they would send for it - a woman afterwards came for the oil; I gave it her,
and followed her - I saw her talking to the prisoner; I went up, and he
said, "You have not sent the oil" - I said No; he then ran away - I gave an
alarm, and he was taken; I did not see the oil in his possession.
NOT GUILTY
A hundred and eighty years from now "7-11," "pizzeria," "convenience store"
could well give someone pause, since meanings we take for granted might have
shifted--I could put all sorts of spin (not all for family publication) on
what "convenience store" perhaps then will mean.
Query: What was then meant by "oil-shop"? Petroleum products certainly
seemed for the future. Edible oil of some sort? About all I could think of
was olive, or maybe some nut oils, but how common was olive oil in cookery
in the British Isles at that time? It would not seem mainstream at all,
meriting shops. Illuminating oil? Whale oil was available, and olive oil,
too. Lubricating of some sort (whale again)? Making paint (linseed)? But
to have an "oil-shop" also selling soap (and in such amounts) makes all
these choices hard to choose among. Nowadays a Google search of "oil-shop"
seems to produce mostly places touting artisinal olive oil. But _autres
temps ..._
And the case seems kind of baffling, as what appears to be in question is
not unpaid-for soap, but oil, of whatever kind that causes problems to
"get... as it was so cold." And what became of that woman, I wonder? This
may be the first time in a century-plus that anyone on Earth has give a
moment's thought to William Herbert Reynold Berry of London.
Not cold down this way. My cooking oils are less viscous by the day.
Ray
Hello Ray,
Still temperate here. Hope it stays so.
"Oil-shops" and "oilmen" were once a local fixture in the UK. The odor from
the local oil-shop appears to have been well-known in a city or town. The
main wares of an oil-shop were olive oil and products made from it, of which
soap was one, probably made on the premises. Top quality olive oil imported
from the Mediterranean countries was sold in flasks and known as "salad
oil". Lesser quality olive oil was imported in large jars and used in lamps,
for cooking, to make soap, for lubricants, in paint, etc. As you say, these
shops also dealt in other vegetable oils and in animal oils such as
whale-oil, and later in paraffin.
The best reference that I found was this:
Archaeology Data Service
The oil jar, as a primary container, must I suggest, have held second or
third quality olive oil. The oilman by the 19th century would, however, have
sold a wide range of animal and vegetable oils, together with their secondary
products. The former oils ~rovideil(sic) burning (for lamps) and lubricating (machine)
oils. The drying vegetable oils provided paint, varnkhes(sic) and soaps as well
as lubricants. The non-drying vegetable oils, which includes olive oil,
provided cooking oils, burning oils, soaps and lubricants, etc. The vegetable
fats made soap and candles.
While not the petroleum oil of our energy crisis, the oilman's products
were just as vital for cooking, lighting, lubricants and much else in its time.
Phaed
From: t
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: F. W. Woolworth recipes.
Hi,
Any
idea how to go about finding out if the original recipes I have from 1936 and
printed on parchment like paper are authentic?
Thx
T
You’re going to have to have an expert investigate the provenance of your
documents and authenticate them. Best way to find one would be to ask at
local antique stores.
Phaed
From: t
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 12:14 PM
To: Phaedrus
Subject: Re: F. W. Woolworth recipes.
I don't think that I will find anyone qualified to do that in this
area. Very rural. Any other ideas/leads? I have found very
little on-line.
I believe they are authentic as they have statements like "executive office
recipe" and " stores having dept. #34-B-C"; "Recipe 1, Entrees, Egg cutlet,
OCT 1, 1936" etc.. Each page of paper has a watermark that is only visible
when held up to a bright light.
Thx
T
Hello “t”
If you want me to do anything more, you must give your first name. Sorry,
but it’s one of my rules. See the instructions page & F.A.Q.:
FAQ & Instructions
If you write back and give me your first name, I’ll work on it just like I
would on any other request.
Phaed
From: "t"
To: "Phaedrus"
Subject: Re: F. W. Woolworth recipes.
Date: Monday, June 16, 2014 7:56 AM
sorry, It's T--. I didn't read your rules as I stumbled across you while researching F.W. Woolworth and
just sent an email to you to see if you knew anything about Woolworth recipes.
thx
T
Hi T--,
No problem. These documents sound very interesting (I’d love to have copies of them.) and may be very valuable.
There are questions that need to answered in authenticating these:
1) Did Woolworth’s ever print their lunch counter recipes in the form in which yours are printed? – I’ve never seen any mention of anything like you have. They must have had a lunch counter manual, but would it have been in the format of what you have? Are these the actual lunch counter recipe book pages or are they some sort of commemorative recipes?
2) What is the provenance of the recipes that you have? Where did you get them? How far back can possession of these be traced, and what is the connection between the possessors of the documents and F.W. Woolworth’s itself?
3) How many of these documents do you have? Are they in any sort of binder or are they loose sheets? What does the watermark say? What company made the paper?
Do you have a scanner? You are going to need good scans or photocopies of these to send to any experts you find, and you need to find some experts. Do you ever watch the TV show “Antiques Roadshow”? Those are the sort of experts you need. They can authenticate and appraise the value of what you have. “Antiques Roadshow” has a website, and you can contact them directly(I’d start here.):
Just Answer
These are other online antique and collectible authenticators and appraisers:
Roykas
and
Harry Rinker
There is a book about Woolworth’s called "Remembering Woolworth's: A Nostalgic History of the World's Most Famous Five and Dime" By Karen Plunkett-Powell. This book has a chapter about Woolworth’s memorabilia and collectibles. In that chapter, the author mentions two sources for information: "Kovel's Antiques and Collectibles", and "Dime Store Days" by Lester Glassner & Brownie Harris. A preview (not the complete book – some pages are left out.) of "Remembering Woolworth's: A Nostalgic History of the World's Most Famous Five and Dime" By Karen Plunkett-Powell is available here:
"Remembering Woolworth's: A Nostalgic History of the World's Most Famous Five and Dime" By Karen Plunkett-Powell
You can probably get used copies of all three of these books via Amazon.
There are at least two F.W. Woolworth’s museums in the world. One is in Oxnard, California: The Woolworth Building
There is an article about it here: San Jose Inside
The article mentions a Woolworth’s expert: “Mike Driscoll, a travel writer based in Brookfield, Ill., has been collecting Woolworth memorabilia for 25 years.” The article says that the museum was created by David Feigin and his wife/business partner Nancy Greenfield in 2002.
The other Woolworth’s museum is in the United Kingdom. Many people don’t realize how popular F. W. Woolworth’s was in the U.K. The lunch counters actually began there. The lunch counters were so popular in the U.K. that Woolworth’s brought the idea to their U.S. stores. This is the website for the U.K. museum:
Woolworth Museum UK
Finally, when F.W. Woolworth’s closed it’s last store, the company itself didn’t disappear. It went into the shoe business and became first the Venator Group and then “Foot Locker”. Foot Locker
T--, there are several leads for you in all of this – people to contact. Try the appraisers first – they have connections and can do the research themselves. I don’t know about fees, if any. If they don’t work out, try to find contact information for some of the people mentioned. If they can’t help, maybe they can tell you someone who can. There are numerous antiques and collectibles themed websites. They might help.
This site might be of assistance: Antiques at About.com
Perhaps even the people at the museums can refer you to someone. I don’t know if anyone at Foot Locker would be of any help, but if nothing else works, it’s worth a try.
If you need help finding something specific, let me know.
Phaed
From: t
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 1:50 PM
To: Phaedrus
Subject: Re: F. W. Woolworth recipes.
Thx for the info.
1. Just by looking at them they appear that they were in a binder of some sort. Don't appear to be commemorative.
2. My father was given them to give to me when grandpa and grandma passed as they knew I love to cook and they
wanted me to have them but dad forgot all about them until he moved last fall (he's 81) and he came across them
when moving. Grandpa was a Woolworth manager of a store in CT in the 20's-40's? then he left to open his own
five and dime in MA.
3. The water mark says "PILOT BOND, RAG CONTENT with some sort of old wheel looking symbol between "pilot and bond"
and the "rag content" is enclosed inside of a sideways type of square.
4. I haven't actually counted how many I have yet but probably around 200? Maybe more. They are grouped in
sections such as "Entries, vegetables, soups, fish, meats, deserts etc. Looks like the whole menu for that store
design (#34-B-C)?
I have incl. a copy of two of the pg's from my collection to give you an idea of what I'm talking about. The watermark
doesn't show of course nor does the holes on the left side of the paper that would of held it in the binder?
I believe grandpa kept these "old recipes" as I have some "duplicates of the same page". i.e. the "new" pg had
instructions to remove pg "X" and install the new page in place of the old pg. I would surmise that the ones grandpa
had and that I now have were "old" recipes that were replaced by "newer" dated recipes. (only a few months newer from what I see)
T
Hello T--,
Ok – There’s the connection – your Grandpa was a Woolworth’s Manager. One of the scans that you sent me is a meat buying specification. Woolworth’s buyer would send these descriptions to the butcher or meat company from whom they purchased their meat. The other appears to be an actual recipe page from the F.W. Woolworth’s kitchen manual. I’m no expert, but it looks to me like you have the real thing. I can’t give you a value on it. The only method that I have for valuing such things is to find the same thing for sale on E-Bay or elsewhere on the Internet and see what price is being asked for it. In this case, I could not find anything similar for sale anywhere, so I have nothing to compare it with. Yours are the only official Woolworth’s recipes that I have ever known to exist.
To get a signed authentication and a value for the material, you’re still going to have to go to an expert. I’d recommend that you e-mail that “Just Answer” website:
Just Answer
Just use the form on their webpage to send them an e-mail. Describe what you have and see what they say. Once you establish contact with someone there, you can send them the scans that you sent me. They should be able to give you a ballpark figure for the value. If you decide to sell them, you might get a better price from one of the museums or from a collector.
I’ll be posting our discussion about these (not your e-mail address, though.) on my site in a few weeks. Someone might be interested in them. If I get any inquiries, I’ll forward them to you.
Phaed
From: "t"
To: "Phaedrus"
Subject: Re: F. W. Woolworth recipes.
Date: Monday, June 16, 2014 2:44 PM
Thx much. Pls keep the info you Post about this as generic as you can. (no names, email addy etc.)
I'm sure you understand why. What I have told you is only what I know and that's not much and it
may not even be accurate. ( My family has always been very, very, tight-lipped about "business, work,
finances etc.). All I really know is it looks like I have some authentic Woolworth recipes from their
lunch counter manual.
I wasn't looking to sell them; more interested in if they were authentic, which I believe they are.
( of course; I could chg my mind.....:) )
Curious to see what response you get from your posting.
I will get around to contacting the Just Answer site in due time.
Thx again
T
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