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Crusty French Bread

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: phaedrus
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 9:22 AM
Subject: crusty bread

> I'd like to have the trick to baking crusty French bread.  A book 
> I have says to toss ice cubes into the oven at intervals. The bread 
> didn't seem crusty enough.  This is for bread machine bread.  I do 
> not have any of those long thin bread pans, which I think you can 
> get at Williams Sonoma.  I just form the bread dough, then place it 
> on a cookie sheet then into the oven.
>     Also,  what is the difference in ingredients for French bread 
> vs Italian bread for the bread machine?  I'd appreciate a website or 
> two on making crusty European breads, if available.
>    Your advice and information on the website is fantastic.  Thanks.
>     Thanks,
>     Chris    

Hello Chris,

Forget the ice cubes. Put a pan of hot water on the shelf below the bread. It's steam that makes the crust, so ice is a waste of time. Take the pan of water out 10 minutes before the bread is done so the crust can dry out. Also, try brushing the dough with water before you put it in the oven, then brush it with water again 10 minutes before you take it out.

As you can see from the recipes below, when you're talking basic recipes, there's not a whit's difference between Italian bread and French bread recipes. However, as you move up to more complex recipes, Italian bread often calls for olive oil and a bit of cornmeal, whereas French bread may call for a bit of vegetable oil, but usually not olive, and it usually doesn't call for cornmeal.


Italian Bread
Recipe for bread machine.
For a crunchier crust if you bake this bread early in the day, pop the bread
in a 425*F (220*C) oven for about 5 minutes just before serving.

3 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon honey or sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 1/8 cups warm water (110*F/45*C)
1 1/2 tablespoons olive oil
1 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast
Water for brushing
1 egg white mixed with 1 tablespoon water
1 tablespoon sesame seeds
1 tablespoon cornmeal

Place the first 6 ingredients into your bread machine in the order suggested
by the manufacturer. Select the dough cycle.
Remove dough and divide, form into a round or oblong loaf.
Sprinkle cornmeal onto a well-greased baking sheet. Place loaf on pan seam
side down. Brush top of loaf with water. Cover with plastic wrap and set
aside to rise in a warm draft- free place until doubled in size, about 50
Preheat oven to 400*F (205*C).
Brush loaf with egg wash mixture. Sprinkle with sesame seeds. Make 4 deep
slashes with a razor blade or very sharp knife across the top of the dough,
being careful not to tear and deflate the dough.
Place a pan of hot water in bottom of oven.
Bake on center rack of oven for 30 to 35 minutes or until golden brown and
bread sounds hollow when tapped, turning the baking pan around after 20
minutes. Remove from the oven and cool the bread on wire racks.
Makes 1 loaf.
Italian Bread Using a Bread Machine

Makes 2 - 1 pound loaves

Prep Time: 20 Minutes
Cook Time: 35 Minutes
Ready in: 3 Hours 20 Minutes

4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon light brown sugar
1 1/3 cups warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C)
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 1/2 teaspoons olive oil
1 (.25 ounce) package active dry yeast

1 egg
1 tablespoon water
2 tablespoons cornmeal

1 Place flour, brown sugar, warm water, salt, olive oil and yeast in the pan
of the bread machine in the order recommended by the manufacturer. Select
dough cycle; press Start.
2 Deflate the dough and turn it out onto a lightly floured surface. Form
dough into two loaves. Place the loaves seam side down on a cutting board
generously sprinkled with cornmeal. Cover the loaves with a damp cloth and
let rise, until doubled in volume about 40 minutes. Meanwhile, preheat oven
to 375 degrees F (190 degrees C).
3 In a small bowl, beat together egg and 1 tablespoon water. Brush the risen
loaves with egg mixture. Make a single long, quick cut down the center of
the loaves with a sharp knife. Gently shake the cutting board to make sure
that the loaves are not sticking. If they stick, use a spatula or pastry
knife to loosen. Slide the loaves onto a baking sheet with one quick but
careful motion.
4 Bake in preheated oven for 30 to 35 minutes, or until loaves sound hollow
when tapped on the bottom.
  Italian Bread

 Recipe By     : BBD: Bread Machine Cookbook, Donna Rathmell German
 Serving Size  : 1    Preparation Time :0:00
 Categories    : Bread Mailing List               Bread Machine

   Amount  Measure       Ingredient -- Preparation Method
 --------  ------------  --------------------------------
    1 1/4  cups          water
    1 1/2  teaspoons     sugar
      1/2  teaspoon      salt
    3      cups          bread flour
    2      teaspoons     yeast

 Basic or French cycle.
 Title: Italian Bread #4
  Categories: Bread machi, Breads, Bread-baker, Internation
       Yield: 1 servings

   1 1/3 c  Water
       2 tb Olive oil; or other
   3 1/2 c  Flour
       2 ts Salt
       2 ts Yeast

  (keep salt and yeast separate; they can interact if together before mixing.)
   Follow directions for your ABM.
French Bread 2

 Recipe By     :
 Serving Size  : 2    Preparation Time :0:00
 Categories    : Breads                           Breadmaker

   Amount  Measure       Ingredient -- Preparation Method
 --------  ------------  --------------------------------
    1       pk           Yeast
    2       c            Bread flour
    1       t            Salt
    1       t            Sugar
    1       t            Butter or margarine
    1       c            Plus 1 T warm water

   Place all ingredients in the order listed into the pan, select "French"
   bread and press "Start".
   NOTE:  Unless otherwise noted all ingredients should be at room temperature.
   This can be mixed on manual of the bread machine.  After Second kneading,
   remove dough from machine, divide into to equal portions and place 
   in small loaf pans.  Cover and let rise to double, about 45 min to 1 hour. 
   Bake at 350 f. for 35-40 min.
French Bread Extraordinaire!

 Recipe By     :
 Serving Size  : 1    Preparation Time :0:00
 Categories    : Breads                           Breadmaker

   Amount  Measure       Ingredient -- Preparation Method
 --------  ------------  --------------------------------
    1 1/4   c            Water
                         For Welbilt/Dak and Zoji add
                         2 Tablespoons more water
    3 1/2   c            Unbleached white flour
    1 1/2   ts           Salt
    2       ts           Red Star brand active dry

   1.Place dough ingredients in bread pan, select Dough
   setting, and press Start 2. When the dough cycle ends,
   the machine will beep. Set a timer and allow the dough
   to rise 1 more hour. Open the machine, punch down the
   dough, set the timer again and let dough rise another
   hour in the machine. Turn off bread machine, remove
   bread pan, and turn out dough onto a lightly floured
   countertop or cutting board. Form into a smooth round
   ball then flatten it with your hands. 3. Place a clean
   kitchen towel (not terry cloth) in a round wicker
   basket that's at least twice the size of the dough.
   Dust the towel liberally with flour. Place the round
   dough in the center of the basket. Place basket in a
   warm place and let dough rise, uncovered, about 45
   minutes until double in size. 4. Gently turn dough out
   of basket upside down onto a greased baking sheet.
   With a very sharp knife held almost parallel to the
   loaf, carefully slash the top of the dough at sharp
   angles in a # pattern. 5. Preheat oven to 450F. Place
   a small pan on the floor or bottom shelf of the oven
   and carefully add at least 1 cup boiling water to the
   pan.  Place dough in oven and bake for 20 minutes.
   Remove from oven and place on cake rack to cool 1
   hours before slicing. To preserve the crisp crust, do
   not store in plastic wrap or bag. Bread can be loosely
   covered or left out for up to two days before it dries
   out completely. From THE BREAD MACHINE MAGIC BOOK OF
   HELPFUL HINTS by Linda Rehberg and Lois Conway.
   Formatted by Linda Caldwell
  Title: French Bread #5
  Categories: Bread machi, Breads, Internation, Fatfree
       Yield: 1 servings

       1 pk Yeast
       3 c  Bread flour
       2 tb Sugar
       1 ts Salt
       2 tb Butter ; (room temperature)
       1 c  Hot water; (less 1 tbl)
       2    Egg whites; stiffly beaten at room temperature

   Recipe by: DAK Loafing It
   Ingredients should be at room temperature.
   Liquids (and 'warmed' ingredients) should be at 120-130 degrees.

   Whip the whites untill stiff and set aside.
   Add ingredients in order given.  Add the egg whites after all other
   are moist.
   Setting:  french bread

German Apple Pancakes

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Janice
  To: phaedrus
  Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 2:25 PM
  Subject: Can't find this recipe anywhere

  Please help me find the recipe for German Apple Pancakes. There was a 
  restaurant in Annandale Va. named  Three Chefs back in the 60s to the 
  70's. They made a breakfast Pancake  called  German Apple Pancake. It 
  was just one big pancake all puffed up with sliced apples mixed in and 
  a glaze sauce on top . Boy was it good . I have looked for a recipe for 
  that for years but once the restaurant went out of business I could not 
  find it anywhere. Sure hope you can find the recipe, I would be eternally 

  Thanks so much . 

Hi Janice,

See if one of the below recipes sounds right.


  Puffed German Apple Pancakes 
  The Old Red Inn and Cottages Bed and Breakfast 
  North Conway, New Hampshire 

  6 eggs 
  1 cup milk 
  2/3 cup flour 
  1/2 teaspoon salt 
  3 medium large apples (core, peel, and slice) 
  1/4 cup lemon juice 
  4 Tablespoons butter or margarine 
  1/4 cup dark brown sugar 
  1/2 teaspoon cinnamon 
  pure warmed maple syrup 
  Mix together eggs, milk, flour, and salt. Toss apples with 2 
  Tablespoons lemon juice. Melt butter in 13 x 19-inch baking 
  dish in preheated 425-degree oven. 

  Remove dish and spread apples evenly over the bottom. Return to 
  oven until sizzles, then take out and pour batter over apples. Mix 
  the brown sugar and cinnamon, sprinkle over batter. Put back in oven 
  and bake 20 minutes until puffed and browned.

  Remove from oven, drizzle 2 Tablespoons lemon juice over top. Cut 
  into serving pieces and serve with syrup.
  German Apple Pancakes 

  2 Large Apples 
  5 Tbsp butter         
  1/4 Cup sugar 
  1/4 Tsp cinnamon 
  1/8 Tsp nutmeg 
  2 Eggs extra large 
  1/2 Cup milk 
  1/2 Cup All Purpose Flour  
  2 Tbsp icing sugar 

  Quarter apples; core, peel and slice thin lengthwise. Melt butter 
  in a 10 inch fry pan; add apples slices; cook over med. Heat for 
  5 minutes. Mix sugar, cinnamon and nutmeg. Sprinkle over apples. 
  Cover and continue cooking over low heat for 5 minutes, turning once 
  or twice. Set aside. Combine eggs, milk, beat with a whisk. Add flour 
  and beat until batter is smooth. Pour over the apple mixture. Bake at 
  450 F for 15 minutes. Sprinkle with one tablespoon of the icing sugar. 
  Serve warm with pure maple syrup and plain yogurt if desired. Serves 
  4-6, double for larger servings. Use other fruit when in season.
  Title: Apfelpfannkuchen (German Apple Pancakes)
    Categories: Fruits, Penndutch, Breakfast
         Yield: 6 servings
         2 lg Cooking apples (Yellow Delicious, or Granny Smith)
       1/4 c  Butter
         1 c  Flour
         1 c  Milk
         1 ts Vanilla extract
       1/2 ts Salt
       1/4 ts Nutmeg, grated
              Confectioners sugar
     Preheat oven to 475.  Peel, core and very thinly slice
     the apples: you should have approximately 1-1/2 cups.
     Melt 3 T sp. of the butter over medium low heat in a
     small fry pan, and saute the apples until they are
     just tender.  Keep apples warm while preparing the
     Place a 9 or 10 inch cast-iron skillet in the oven to
     heat for at least 5 minutes--the pan has to be very
     hot for this to work.  When it is well heated, add the
     remaining 2 T sp. of butter to melt and put the
     skillet back in the oven;  the butter should be very
     hot buy not brown when you add the apples and the
     Place the flour, milk, vanilla, salt and nutmeg in a
     blender and whirl until smooth.  Remove the skillet
     from the oven, quickly arrange the warm apple slices
     over the melted butter, and pour the batter evenly
     over all. Bake for 15 min., reduce heat to 375 and
     bake 10 min longer. The pancake will puff and climb up
     the sides of the pan. Sprinkle with confectioner's
     sugar, then cut in wedges and serve with maple syrup.
     Note:  If you do not use apples, add 1/4 cup (1/2
     stick) butter to the hot skillet.

Olive Garden Andes Mint Pie

----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah
To: phaedrus
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: Olive Garden mint pie

> A few years back, Olive Garden had a mint pie that was so good, I bought
> a whole pie to share with my friends, it cost like 35 dollars.  What I
> remember of it, it had an Andes mint stuck in every piece on the top,
> and it was a firm pie, almost more like a cake, but very moist.  Can you
> help me find it, or something very similar?  I haven't seen it in years,
> unfortunately.
> Sarah

Hi Sarah,

I found one recipe. See below.


Olive Garden Andes Mint Pie

1 box brownie mix
1 quantity of mint mousse *below
1 cup semi-sweet choc chips
1/4 cup milk, or cream, or half and half
1 package andes mints.
Mix brownies according to package directions. pour into a lightly greased
springform pan and bake according to package directions.

Mint mousse:
1 cup chopped andes mints (better to use the mostly green ones for color)
6 eggs, separated
3/4 cup heavy cream
In microwave, for about 15 sec, melt the mints. Set up a double boiler on
the stove (best to use a metal bowl.) Place egg yolks on top of double
boiler and whisk using a wire wisk until pale yellow and frothy. add melted
mints and mix until combined. The mix will get stiff. In a separate bowl,
using a hand blender, whisk egg whites until stiff. Fold the egg whites into
the mint and egg yolk mixture a little bit at a time.
Next, whip up the heavy cream with a hand-held blender until thick. Fold
this a little at a time into the egg and chocolate mix. If you like, you can
add a few drops of green food coloring, but it's not neccessary for taste.

Top the cooled brownie with the mousse mixture and leave to set in the
refrigerator. Next, heat the cream, milk, or half & half in a pan on the
stove. (Non-stick pans work best) Add the chocolate chips and melt and
continually stir over a low heat until you have a chocolate sauce.
Top the cooled pie with the chocolate sauce. Decorate with andes mints.
Also, if you wish, you can crush more andes mints and when the pie is set
and chilled, brush the sides with melted chocolate and press on the crushed


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Helen 
  To: phaedrus 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 8:47 AM
  Subject: Mexican (?) dish

  Hi Phaed

  Looking for an ethnic recipe, possibly Mexican (?).  A friend asked 
  me if I had a recipe for Pastille.  She was not sure of spelling-all 
  she knows the ingredients are ground up (one she remembers, bananas) 
  when assembled, they are wrapped  in parchment paper.  Can you help?  

  Thank you.


Hi Helen,

I think your friend means "pasteles". This is best known as a Puerto Rican dish. The ingredients can be hard to find in the US because it requires green bananas and taro root. There's a recipe below and another one at this website, with pictures:



   This is another traditional Puerto Rican recipe.  Mamita makes them 
   often and stores them in the freezer.  It is a Puerto Rican frozen 
   dinner.  You make a huge batch up, and freeze them for later. She 
   sent some home with us in a cooler, after our trip to Puerto Rico.  
   This recipe calls for unripe green bananas. They can not be plaintains, 
   they must be normal bananas but VERY GREEN!!!  If they are yellow at 
   all they are too sweet for the recipe.  In Puerto Rico they just cut 
   them off the tree in the backyard.  Here in the midwest, it is the 
   hardest ingredient for me to find. 
  1 1/4 lb taro root
  3 lbs unripe (green) bananas
  3/4 lb potatos
  1 green plantain
  2 TBsp milk
  1/4 cup annatto oil, plus extra to grease leaves
  banana leaves, platain leaves, parchement paper, or aluminum foil 
  for wrapping 
  Peel the vegetables and soak them in salted water for 5 minutes.  
  Drain and grate on the finest side of the grater.  Add the milk, 
  oil and salt.  Let the dough rest for at least an hour in the 
  refrigerator.  (It is best if regrigerated overnight).  Brush the 
  leaves or parchment paper with annotto oil.  (preferably use the 
  leaves and then wrap in parchement paper when done - but leaves 
  are not easy to come by in the midwest, check the oriental stores).  
  Spread 1/2 cup of the dough onto the center of an 8" x 10" wrapper 
  in a rectangular shape.  Place 2 TBsp of the filling in the middle 
  of the dough.  Fold about 2 1/2 inches from the left side of the 
  leaf/wrapper.  Fold twice more.  Fold 2 1/2 in from the top and the 
  bottom.  You should have a rectangle about 3 1/2 in wide and 6 1/2 
  in long.  Tie with butcher's twine.  Bring the water to a boil in a 
  large soup pot.  Add the pastles and bring to a boil again.  Reduce 
  the heat and simmer for 45 minutes, turning the pastles once. Remove 
  from the water.  Cut the twine and remove the paper and leaves and 
  discard.  Serve warm.   

Peanut Roast

 ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Margret 
  To: phaedrus
  Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 10:33 PM
  Subject: Peanut Roast

  Hi! Hope you can help me to find a recipe that my mother remembered 
  her mother making during the war. All I remember is the name and that 
  I found out later that peanuts were not an ingredient! Something held 
  it together.Have you ever heard of this and would you have a recipe for 
  it? Thanks a lot! 
  Sincerely, Margaret 

Hello Margaret,

The only "peanut roast" recipe that I can find anywhere is the one below. It was used as a meat substitute dish during World War II when meat was rationed. However, it DOES contain peanuts. Peanuts were used as a source of protein to replace that lost from not using meat.


 Peanut Roast

*1 1/8 cups whole shelled peanuts  
*1/4 cup margarine
*2 onions, chopped                 
*1 large tomato, skinned and chopped
*2 small apples, peeled and diced                   
*2 2/3 tablespoons oatmeal
*1 egg  
*1 teaspoon chopped sage
*salt and pepper                   
*little milk

  Mince peanuts. Heat margarine in pan and cook onion, tomatoes, and apples
  until softened. Add peanuts, oatmeal, sage, and salt and pepper to taste. 
  Bind with egg and just enough milk to give a fairly moist consistency. 
  Press into a 8x4 1/2 inch loaf pan (spray with nonstick spray). Cover with 
  foil and place in preheated oven at 350F for 45 minutes to an hour. 
  Serves 4 


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