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From: peggy
Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2012 7:04 PM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: Salad Dressing
I want to compliment you on your great website. It's so hard to do searches for some things and frustrating when you can't find the right one.
What I am looking for is the recipe for the original bottled Green Goddess salad dressing. This product is no longer sold in stores near us.
I don't know if it has been discontinued altogether or not. We have tried several recipes with disappointing results. Nothing we have made
ourselves or found on the shelves tastes the way we remembered it. If you can possible recreate this recipe for us we would love to have it.
We thank you again for your time and help with this search. Have a great week.
Hi Peggy,
In order to avoid confusion, let’s talk about Green Goddess salad dressing for a bit.
The bottled stuff was not the original. Green Goddess dressing was created from scratch at the Palace Hotel in San Francisco in 1923,
when the hotel's executive chef Philip Roemer wanted something to pay tribute to actor George Arliss and his hit play, "The Green Goddess".
Roemer concocted this dressing and named it after the play. The dressing, too, became a hit. In the early 1970s, long after the play had
mostly been forgotten, Seven Seas produced a bottled version of this dressing. After Seven Seas was bought out by Kraft, the dressing was sold by Kraft.
I have researched Green Goddess Dressing before. See: Green Goddess
The original Palace Restaurant recipe is here:
Original Green Goddess
Charlotte Observer
Wayfare Tavern Green Goddess
There are dozens of recipes on the web that claim to be for making Green Goddess dressing. Note that the original recipe contained anchovies and mayonnaise,
and did not contain avocado or yogurt. The Seven Seas product did not exactly duplicate the original recipe, but was a commercial approximation,
made using commercial ingredients and methods. I had no success finding a recipe that claimed to be a copycat for the Seven Seas or Kraft bottled product.
However, Kraft apparently still makes it in limited quantities. You can get it at Amazon, and possibly at Wal-Mart. Some people complain that the Kraft version
is too bland and is not as good as the Seven Seas product was.
See: Order Salad Dressing Website
I searched, but could not find a Green Goddess recipe that could be confidently said to taste like the Seven Seas bottled version. Sorry.
My only suggestion other than trying the original Palace Restaurant recipe would be for you to keep trying the various recipes on the web
until you find one that suits your taste.
Phaed
Hello
I was just reading your blog, and co-incidentally had just been to this website that is selling the Seven Seas Green Goddess Dressing that was your first entry today.
Hometown Favorites
Not sure if this is a help or not, but thought I would let you know what I discovered…as well as perhaps tune you in to a food site that is pretty cool…
all sorts of obscure and interesting food from our past, as well as regional favorites unavailable to some people in different parts of the country.
Hope this helps ~ and keep up the good work!
______________________
Jim
From: Sally
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 8:13 AM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: Deviled Crab
Can you please locate the recipe for the deviled crab at the old Highland Park Cafeteria in Dallas, Texas? So good!!!
It was creamy, topped with bread crumbs and served on a sea shell.
Thanks,
Sally
Hi Sally,
Sorry, I had no success locating this recipe. There is a forum about the cafeteria here:
Dallas History
Highland Park Cafeteria reopened under new ownership. I read that they have the same recipes. See:
Highland Park Cafeteria
Phaed
From: Sally
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 1:03 PM
To: phaedrus@hungrybrowser.com
Subject: Al's beef and bean smothered burriito
This might be really hard to locate, but the Ninth Hole Restaurant in Denver (Cherry Creek) CO,
served the best beef and bean smothered burrito referred to Al's burrito, who was the owner.
Any chance you can find the recipe?
Thanks,
Sally
Hi Sally,
I can find only one mention of The Ninth Hole in Cherry Creek, and it is merely a mention of a couple who met there.
I can’t find any other mention of the restaurant and no mention at all of Al’s burrito. Do you know Al’s last name?
I’ll post this on the site in case a reader can help.
Phaed
His name was Al Mares.
Sally
-----Original Message-----
From: Debra
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 7:10 PM
To: Phaedrus
Subject: Re: History of old chocolate cake recipe
I have this old cake recipe that I found in my grandmother's
recipe box called Squire Ma's chocolate cake. My great grandmother lived
with my grandmother for several decades and it may have come from her.
The only squire ma in my family history came to the colonies about 1630.
I started out wondering if the recipe dates from her time. The more
research I do the interested I am in finding out its history and the more
unusual it seems.
I have googled it under squire ma, old chocolate cake, 16th century
chocolate cake, 17th century. I have written to Cuisine at home, Cook's
Illustrated, and King Arthur Flour. All say it is an unusual recipe and
haven't seen anything like it. King Arthur suggested I contact you.
My recipe is: cream shortening and sugar, add eggs, flour, sweet milk and
backing soda to make a dough. Boil until thick and cool chocolate
squares, sugar, sweet milk, vanilla and egg yolk. Mix together and bake.
I have only left out the amounts. I have made it 3 times and is becoming
my favorite cake recipe. Everyone likes it. It is dense and moist and
stays fresh longer than other cakes, usually a week.
If you can help, I would really appreciate it.
Than you.
Debbie
Hi Debbie,
It's a little unclear to me exactly what the unusualness of the recipe is.
None of the ingredients are unusual. There are several chocolate cake
recipes with similar ingredients. I'll speculate that you mean the method
is unusual - the order in which the ingredients are combined? I had no
success locating any connection between the term "squire ma" and any
recipe or cake.
My method of locating recipes involves, for the most part, searching the
Internet and various recipe databases. There is no way to do this for the
order in which ingredients are combined. The only way to search for a
recipe exactly like this would be to check every page on the internet with
those ingredients and the words "chocolate cake" on it. Since people put
multiple recipes on one page, the search engines pick pages up even when
the ingredients are in different recipes. So, searching every page would
be quite tedious and would involve more time than I can give to it.
Let's talk about the possible age of the recipe, and the ingredients.
1) The process of hydrogenating vegetable fats to make shortening was not
developed until 1897. Prior to then, lard or butter would have been used.
2) In 1791, a French chemist, Nicolas Leblanc, produced sodium carbonate,
also known as soda ash. In 1846, two New York bakers, John Dwight and
Austin Church, established the first factory to develop baking soda from
sodium carbonate and carbon dioxide. So, baking soda was not available
before 1846.
3) In 1828, Dutchman Coenraad Johannes van Houten patented a method for
extracting the fat from cocoa beans and making powdered cocoa and cocoa
butter. This paved the way for making solid chocolate in bar form. Before
1828, chocolate was used almost exclusively for drinking because the
process for making chocolate and cocoa powder as we know them had not been
invented.
So, you can see, Debra, that your recipe cannot be older than 1897 because
of the shortening, or older than 1846 because of the baking soda, or
older than at least 1828 because of the chocolate squares used. None of
these ingredients would have been available in the 17th and 18th
centuries. In the late 1700s, a few cooks may have added some of the
bitter chocolate that was available at the time to cakes, but those would
have been nothing like your chocolate cake recipe.
Phaed
-----Original Message-----
From: Debra
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:41 AM
To: Phaedrus
Subject: Re: old chocolate cake recipe
Thank you for trying. I began to suspect it wasn't as old when I read about
the development of chocolate. But who was Squire Ma? If not my ancestor
then whose?
Yes, it is the method that is different. Also it is old enough that baking
temperature, baking time were not included, like many old recipes. Using the
term sweet milk also indicates age.
I'm beginning to think it might be older than the ingredients, but was
updated in the 19th century. Boiling part of the ingredients is definitely
unusual.
Thank you, again.
Debbie
Hi Debbie,
I would say that the things you mention do indicate that the recipe is old,
but none of them necessarily indicates that it is older than 19th century. I
grew up in the rural Southern US, and my grandparents used the term "sweet
milk" all their lives, well into the second half of the 20th century. The
lack of baking time and temperature indicate that the recipe was probably
created before the advent of the gas or electric oven, but my maternal
grandmother cooked with a wood stove into the 20th century and her recipes
reflected that fact. For chocolate cake recipes in which part of the
ingredients are boiled, I found the ones below easily.
As for the recipe having been updated, that's easy for the shortening -
butter could have been originally used. Without baking soda or baking
powder, though, it would have had to be a yeast cake or something using a
"starter". Before the 1800s, there was no chocolate suitable for making a
cake. Chocolate was only a beverage before 1828.
You might work some of the genealogy sites to find out something about
"squire ma". I could not find even a mention. "Squire, MA (Massachusetts)
was all that I could find. If "squire ma" was a name, it seems a very
unusual name for a person.
I'm sorry, Debbie, I know this is not what you wanted to hear. I wish you
success in your search for the origin of your recipe.
Phaed
Chocolate Cake
2 c. sugar
2 c. plain flour
1 tsp. salt
3 tsp. baking powder
1 tsp. soda
2 eggs, beaten
3/4 c. shortening
1 stick oleo
1 c. water
4 tbsp. cocoa
1/2 c. buttermilk
1 tsp. vanilla
In mixing bowl, mix sugar, flour, salt and baking powder. In saucepan, put
shortening, oleo, water and cocoa. Bring to boil. Pour boiling mixture
over sugar and flour. Add 2 beaten eggs. Add buttermilk with soda
dissolved in it. Add vanilla.
Bake in loaf pan at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. Ice while hot.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chocolate Cake
2 c. all-purpose flour
2 c. sugar
1 c. water
1/2 c. butter and 1/2 c. shortening
1/4 c. cocoa
1/2 c. buttermilk
2 eggs
1 tsp. baking soda
1 tsp. cinnamon
1 tsp. vanilla
Combine flour and sugar in large bowl; set aside. Combine water, butter,
shortening and cocoa in heavy sauce pan; bring to a boil. Pour chocolate
mixture over flour mixture; blend well. Add next 5 ingredients; mix well.
Pour into greased 13 x 9 inch pan.
Bake at 400 degrees 25 minutes or until toothpick inserted comes out clean.
Cool.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chocolate Cake
1/4 c. vegetable shortening
1 stick margarine
1 c. water
4 tbsp. cocoa
Dash of salt
2 c. sugar
1 c. plain flour
1 tsp. baking soda
2 eggs, beaten
1 tsp. vanilla
1/2 c. buttermilk
Put shortening, margarine, water, cocoa, and salt in saucepan. Bring to
boil. Remove from heat and stir in sugar and flour. Add buttermilk to
which baking soda has been added. Stir in beaten eggs and vanilla. Batter
will be very thin.
Bake in greased and floured 9 x 13 x 2 inch pan at 400 degrees for 25-30
minutes or until cake leaves sides of pan. Let sit for 6 hours before
serving.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chocolate Snack Cake
2 c. all-purpose flour
2 c. sugar
1 c. water
1/2 c. butter or margarine
1/2 c. shortening
1/4 c. cocoa
1/2 c. buttermilk
2 eggs, beaten
1 tsp. baking soda
1 tsp. vanilla extract
Chocolate Frosting
Vanilla ice cream (optional)
Combine flour and sugar in a large bowl; mix well and set aside. Combine
water, butter, shortening, and cocoa in a heavy saucepan; bring to a boil,
stirring constantly. Gradually stir into flour mixture. Stir in
buttermilk, eggs, soda and vanilla.
Pour into a greased and floured 15x10x1 inch jellyroll pan. Bake at 375
degrees for 20 minutes or until a wooden pick inserted in center comes out
clean. Spread with chocolate frosting while cake is warm. Top with ice
cream, if desired.
Yield: 15-18 servings.
==============================================================================
A note regarding the title "Squire":
"Squire" is, of course, the short form of "esquire", which is derived from the Old French "escuier",
which was in turn derived from a Latin term meaning "shield bearer". In England in the Middle Ages,
a squire was a knight's assistant. A knight's squire carried his armor for him and helped him put it
for battle. Also in Old England, it later came to refer to the lord of the manor, the landowner,
or the local "laird".
In the United States, it has been used refer to an attorney - aka "esquire". In U.S. village life,
it was the old term for what we know as a "Justice of the Peace".
==============================================================================
Hello again!
After reading today's post, I decided to take a moment to peruse a couple of my old cookbooks,
and I ran across a recipe very similar to the one in question.
The name isn't quite the same, but perhaps it may be of interest, so I will type it out.
Maud S. Cake
Boil together one-half cake of chocolate, one cupful of granulated sugar, one-half cupful of milk,
the yolk of one egg and let boil til thick and set aside to cool.
Then take one cupful of sugar, one cupful of sweet milk, one cupful of butter,
two and three-quarter cupfuls of flour, two eggs, two teaspoonfuls of baking-powder.
Flavor this with vanilla, stir the chocolate mixture into this and bake on layer tins.
When baked spread strawberry preserves between layers.
W.F. White (from the San Francisco Chronicle Blue Ribbon Cookbook, 1902)
The name of the cake comes from a famous racehorse, Maud S., who was owned by the Vanderbilt family.
The horse was foaled in 1874, from what I could find.
I could easily see how this recipe may have changed slightly to include what other cooks may have had on hand,
and even perhaps lost the name somewhere as it was shared and reprinted- or it is just a technique in use at the time
and many similar recipes existed.
Have a good weekend!
-Tori
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